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Identifying the City Missionary

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Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 23:01

Daily News
12 Nov 1888

"There is no doubt," said a City missionary, "that the impression has been very profound among these unhappy women. We have had special meetings for them, and at the very outset of our efforts we got thirty four of them away to homes, and we have had a good many others since. I knew the poor girl who has just been killed, and to look at, at all events, she was one of the smartest, nicest looking women in the neighbourhood..."

Can the City Missionary in this newspaper report be identified?

I found numerous "City Missionaries" in the 1881 Census living in the Whitechapel area.

Perhaps he can be found in other press reports regarding the East End. I think it would help to know his background.

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Mr Hyde on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 15:39

Just a longshot.....the Very Reverend Daniel Gilbert.

Mary Kelly purportedly stayed at his Crispin Street Refuge.

A Nun who knew her reckoned Mary Kelly was the cause of all five murders.

The refuge had moved from stables at the rear of 14 Finsbury Square,which opened onto Providence Row, in 1868.

The Sisters of Mercy founded in Dublin in 1831 ran the Refuge.

Suspect the kindness shown may have converted Kelly to the Roman Catholic faith.

Ironically,around the corner at 9 Finsbury Square, a doctor from Carmarthen named Davies was listed in the 1881 Census.

He worked at the London Hospital in 1888,as we know.

Best way to travel from the Hospital to Finsbury Square.

Thomas Street,Hanbury Street,Spital Square and Primrose Street.

Nichols,Chapman,Dr.Phillips and an associate of Hutchinson's.

Meh! Synchronicity....


Last edited by Mr Hyde on Mon 13 Oct 2014 - 15:14; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Bit more time on my hands.)

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Tue 14 Oct 2014 - 10:31

I'm not sure a London newspaper would describe a Catholic priest as a City Missionary.

My impression is we're looking for Salvation Army.

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Mr Hyde on Tue 14 Oct 2014 - 16:38

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary

 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisters_of_Mercy

 www.newadvent.org/cathen/10199a.htm

 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Vincent's_Hospital,_Melbourne

 I used to fund raise for St. Vincent's Children's Ward and am not Catholic.

 Believe me,they are Missionaries.

 Also had a significant presence in Limerick after "recruiting" from Bermondsey.

 Have long suspected Mary Kelly to be a Shoreditch C of E girl who was helped by the Sisters of Mercy.

 PS. My links are Firefox,you may have to prefix them with http://

 Worth noting that Barnett left Kelly because she was helping others by giving them shelter.

 Ironic that the founder of the Sisterhood was know as Mary Catherine.


Last edited by Mr Hyde on Tue 14 Oct 2014 - 19:40; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling.)

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Wed 15 Oct 2014 - 14:10

http://www.victorianweb.org/religion/sa1.html wrote:In the mid 1880s, the Salvation Army developed new strategies which aimed to deal with the poverty and squalor of urban slums. Street preaching, home meetings, prayer groups and Bible study were supplemented by social action.
I looked at all the "City Missionaries" in the Census of 1881 and they're almost all married and I don't see many Irish names. They have to be Protestants or Lay Catholics.

Perhaps the Daily News defines it differently than the British government. I remember a newspaper referring to a church I went to as fundamentalist when it was a cult.

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Wed 15 Oct 2014 - 16:20

William Booth made a statement that Mary Kelly came to one of their meetings.

He says the meeting was run by a Captain Walker and "her lieutenant".

[url=http://books.google.ca/books?id=QZ87AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT122&dq=salvation+army+year+book+1888&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ctU-VMm2EoX4yAS4nYCoCg&ved=0CCQQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=salvation army year book 1888&f=false]http://books.google.ca/books?id=QZ87AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT122&dq=salvation+army+year+book+1888&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ctU-VMm2EoX4yAS4nYCoCg&ved=0CCQQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=salvation%20army%20year%20book%201888&f=false[/url]

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Mr Hyde on Wed 15 Oct 2014 - 18:46

Gilbert is a name of German origin.

Guess that leaves him out :)

Walker is British/German....good name for a phantom missionary but!

Crikey our Mary Kelly attended a Sunday morning meeting in a lodging house and sang from Captain Walker's hymn book with her.

Barnardo saw Stride. :bounce:

Waiting for Sanity Clause and the Easter Bunny to turn up.


Last edited by Mr Hyde on Thu 16 Oct 2014 - 22:33; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Can't help myself!)

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Thu 16 Oct 2014 - 15:07

City Missionary is actually a term used almost exclusively for men and women of the London City Mission. It's not supposed to be used for the Salvation Army soldiers.

But I think the newspapers may have mixed them up. So I'm looking at possibly James J Cooke as the missionary who knew Kelly.

Captain Walker was a woman and I'm guessing so was her lieutenant. The guy could be their respective husband though.

The only name I came up with for the London City Mission is John Galt.

I guess the question now is, Who is John Galt?!

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Thu 16 Oct 2014 - 20:12

City Press
7 Nov 1888

"POOR OF THE EAST-END. - In two reports of the London City Mission issued this week, additional light is thrown upon the condition of the people in the neighbourhood where the East-end atrocities were committed. The Flower-and-Dean-street report says:- "All the victims lived in this district, and frequented the common lodging-houses situated within its boundaries. Some were well known to the missionary, especially the Mitre-square victim, who had on previous Sundays attended the service held by the missionary in one of the lodging-houses."

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Mr Hyde on Thu 16 Oct 2014 - 20:51

Eddowes was in Kent for the hop picking season on the previous Sundays.

You have "missionaries" galore chest thumping and seeking sponsorship.

 Your OP has a more believable tone to it.

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Mr Hyde on Thu 16 Oct 2014 - 22:14

John Galt joined LCM in 1889.

You would have seen several of his photographs.

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Sun 19 Oct 2014 - 12:22

I found his photos mentioned but didn't see the actual photos of Whitechapel.

There's a Charles Elgar who joined the LCM in 1878 and is living in Shoreditch in 1881...

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 14:27

What about this fellow? Charles Pateman.

He joined the LCM in 1880. I recall his name listed as a witness in a Whitechapel marriage in 1887.

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 14:28


Charles Pateman Curate, witness

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 17:55


The London City Mission Magazine Vol. 80-81
Google Books snippet view

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Wed 29 Oct 2014 - 12:03

I can now confirm that Charles Pateman is the City Missionary from the press reports. He tells the Daily News in 1888 that he's worked 7 years in the East End and Charles Pateman, we know, started there in 1881 (as per above image).

Daily News
United Kingdom
12 November 1888

"You have been at this work a good many years?" "Seven years in this neighbourhood."

You heard it here first folks at victorianripper.niceboard.org!

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Wed 5 Nov 2014 - 12:40

Something to Look Forward To:

London City Missions Archive has a mini biography of Charles Pateman and is sending it to me in the regular post.

I will be sure to post a transcript on these boards when I get it.

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Mr Hyde on Thu 6 Nov 2014 - 1:30

Maybea wrote:I can now confirm that Charles Pateman is the City Missionary from the press reports. He tells the Daily News in 1888 that he's worked 7 years in the East End and Charles Pateman, we know, started there in 1881 (as per above image).

Daily News
United Kingdom
12 November 1888

"You have been at this work a good many years?" "Seven years in this neighbourhood."

You heard it here first folks at victorianripper.niceboard.org!

Naturally.

If you want the same old arguments,just go to that other place.

ROFL.

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Thu 13 Nov 2014 - 22:12

As promised, I received the Pateman package in the post, air mail, today.

The papers include a mini-bio and all his articles from the LCM magazine. One of the articles has some unseen material about the Berner St. murder as it relates to missionary work.

I will post a transcript in the Victims General section since he knew Kelly and Eddowes.

Here first - naturally!

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Mr Hyde on Fri 14 Nov 2014 - 15:11

A crucial scene establishing the relationship between three of the five women was going to set in one of the hotels "at" Dorset Street.

 Never completely comfortable with it.
 Too easy.

 A soup kitchen depicts their desperate situation more accurately.

 The Jewish one at the rear of 6 Fashion Street specialised in Red Herrings,so.......

 Crikey! It's Saturday morning here in Oz and you have had me working since 5am. Grrrr.....

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Guest on Fri 14 Nov 2014 - 17:59

Maybea wrote:
Charles Pateman Curate, witness
Charles Pateman is quoted in the paper as saying the London City Mission managed to rescue one of Mary Jane Kelly's friends. He also says he rescued some by getting them married off. Could the above woman in the marriage certificate by Mary Kelly's friend.
She had an aunt named Mary Jane Kelly. She also appears to disappear from the records. Could our Kelly be her aunt?

"I knew the poor girl who has just been killed, and to look at, at all events, she was one of the smartest, nicest looking women in the neighbourhood. We have had her at some of our meetings, and a companion of hers was one we rescued... Oh if the missionary would but try to get them married! "A very common task," says the missionary. "During my seven years I suppose I have managed to get a couple of hundred married under such circumstances at least." Away again up into a comfortable, clean, and tidy little room in a block of model dwellings."


http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/daily_news/18881112.html?printer=true

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Re: Identifying the City Missionary

Post by Mr Hyde on Fri 14 Nov 2014 - 20:35

Wez Kaz?

 We haz free webzsight?

 Ripperologists have long tagged the CV5 as prostitutes when it is not necessarily the case.

 Mary Ann Kelly offered assistance to Maria Harvey and Barnett leaves.
 Seems like a Christian act,if one is that way inclined.
 Practising the virtue of altruism at least.

 Eddowes would have gone broke soliciting in Mitre Square.
 She was there to see Jack after missing the earlier appointment with Stride.
 Crikey! Look at the police who attended at that time of the morning after their previous Saint's Day.

 Stride seems to have left her profession behind,if not her STD.

 The other two....they'd have to pay me!
 Prolly simply begging.

 Mary's brothers no doubt had children.
 Only really have one good candidate,an accountant from Shoreditch working for a smelter in Wales.

 I'll pass on that one.

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